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Righteous Indignation or Sinful Judging?
In the following e-mail exchange, the e-mailer's comments are in black and enclosed in "greater than" and "lesser than" signs. My comments are in red. My comments to which the email is responding to are in purple and enclosed in double "greater than" and "lesser than" signs.
>Subject: RE: "Jesus Christ is not God"
I read the article in the subject line. The author sounds frustrated.<
Only at JWs not distinguishing between what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches and what "oneness" people teach.
>My thought on John 1:1 & context is that this information is presented to show that the man Jesus had been a spirit person as is God, JW definition as per the article.<
The context is to show the pre-existence of Jesus.
>See John 4:23&24 "God is a Spirit". As only two persons are mentioned at John 1:1 trinitarians of whatever ilk are twisting this scripture to fit there mind set.<
Again, the context is about Jesus. To mention the Holy Spirit would have been out of place.
> I'm not JW religion. I'm not a trinitarian.<
I would suggest you check out the articles on the Trinity on my site and the chapters on this subject in my Scripture Workbook.
> Now I hope I haven't offended as I also wonder about that pretty purple bar. Is it open source? May I copy it?
"Concepts without intuition are empty.
Intuition without concepts is blind."
It's public domain. I copied it myself from a graphics site. So feel free to copy it.
> >I would suggest you check out the articles on the Trinity on my site and the chapters on this subject in my Scripture Workbook.<<
>No, thank you. My search for the truth does not goes that way. I firmly believe that the trinity teaching is antichrist because it distorts the wonderful personages of the Father and Son. "Now I hope I haven't offended."}
Ignoring one side is not a "search for truth." It is starting and ending with a preconceived notion. I believe the doctrine of the Trinity because I took the time to read and study the arguments on all sides and came to the reasoned conclusion that there is overwhelming evidence to support God's three-in-oneness. And that research is reflected in the hundreds of verses cited in my Scripture Workbook in support of the doctrine, along with all of the info on my site.
But since you've already made up your mind without looking at all of the evidence, then I won't waste my time responding to any of your other comments.
I'm moving on. I read one article on your website I really don't remember why. I also have read, studied and meditated on the Scriptures and the "preconceived notion [of] the doctrine of the Trinity" does not come from God's word the Bible.<
My Scripture Workbook contains HUNDREDS of verses supporting the doctrine of the Trinity.
> It comes from the great apostasy; the work of lawless men who twisted as many verses as they can to their demon inspired mind set.<
Is there any reason whatsoever to use such language? I NEVER say such things on my site about people I disagree with. You come across as an anger filled person. Not a very good Christian witness.
> They even inserted spurious words in their translating of the Bible due to how weakly the unholy trinity can be support by Bible passages.<
I assume you're referring to 1John 5:7,8 as that is the only passage that might fit this description. I discuss this passage in detail in my Bible versions book. And I emphasize that the doctrine of the Trinity was believed long before this passage made it's way into the Scriptures.
And again, there's HUNDREDS of verses supporting the doctrine. You can keep repeating that it has no support, but you only do so because you refuse to look at the evidence.
>You are a follower of age old mysticism. <
Another charge that has no basis. The doctrine did not come from mysticism in any way. You really need to study real church history, not the distorted scenarios you keep repeating.
>Jehovah God is real. The triune god is a fairy tale told to kept people from gaining salvation by means of the Son of God, Jesus. Shame on you.
It's told because it is the only conception that fully explains all of the Biblical data.
You make all kinds of strong claims without backing them up. I have responded to each of these claims in much more detail on my site and in my books. None of them have any basis whatsoever.
So I will just close this discussion by encouraging you to open your closed mind and look at the real facts in the case.
I will also point out that your strong rhetoric will get you no where with me or anyone else who has studied this subject. All you do is make yourself out to be an anger-filled, misinformed person. And again, that is not a good Christian witness.
I'm sorry if I'm upsetting you as you seem to be getting angrier with each email. So I won't respond to any future emails you might send as I don't want to upset you further. But I did want to make some quick points on this email.
Regardless of your "HUNDREDS of verses supporting the doctrine" as you say, they are no more than your intellectual twisting of the scriptures and that's blasphemy against two very wonderful persons Almighty God Jehovah and his Mighty God Son Jesus. I don't have to prove something that the scriptures plainly teach.<
To me, the Scriptures "plainly teach" God is in some way "three" and in some way "one." And it is this Scriptural evidence that the doctrine of the Trinity, to me, better explains than any other conception of the nature of God.
> It is upon you that the burden of proof fails.<
Not really. It is a "burden" to anyone to prove their position is correct. I have presented my "case" in the numerous pages on the doctrine of the Trinity on my Web site and in the three chapters on the Trinity in my Scripture Workbook. But the only "case" I've gotten from you is ranting and unsupported claims.
> Going to such efforts to distort the truth is telling. I'm sure that God himself is not pleased with persons spreading lies about him just so they can feel that they are so smart. If you could be moved to shame and humbleness and thus gain salvation nothing would be better.<
I would never take it upon myself to make a judgment on another person's character, motive, and especially salvation as you appear to be doing with me. I leave such judgments in the hands of the only One capable of making that judgement (Matt 7:1; James 4:11,12).
>Another point is that the trinity teaching contradicts the doctrine of the ransom as one of the persons in your trinity had to be dead for awhile clearly showing that one to be at least during the dead period to be less than your other trinity parts. Of course you probably have something to say about that too.<
If you had taken the time to actually study the doctrine of the Trinity and what it teaches and doesn't teach, then you would know what my response to this point would be. But apparently you have not taken the time to understand what you are criticizing (2Peter 2:12; Jude 10).
> What would you prefer to have me laugh at you or express disgust at your harming others spiritually? Jesus didn't bless the religious leaders of his day either.<
The key word here is JESUS. He has the right and authority to make judgments on the character, motives, and salvation of people. But the Scriptures command His followers to deal with those they disagree with with gentleness and respect (2Tim 4:2; 2Peter 3:15).
>When I meet someone humble I visit with them. You on the other hand think you are somebody that I should bow down to and recognize as a great teacher. Well I don't. And I won't.
I never said to you or anyone else to believe something because I say so. What I always encourage people to do is to read and study all the evidence on all sides before coming to a conclusion. And yes, that would include encouraging people to read and consider what I have written as I've written quite a bit on many topics people ask about, such as the doctrine of the Trinity.
And note, when people present me with sound, logical, and Scriptural arguments in a non-judgmental and non-confrontational manner I will generally take the time to study their arguments if it is something I haven't looked at before. And there have been times when, after much investigation, I have changed my opinions on the subject as a result.
I hope I haven't upset you even further. But I felt it best to make and clarify these points in closing this discussion.
> Dear Sir,
You are not reading me correctly is all I can say without being misunderstood further.<
>>I would never take it upon myself to make a judgment on another person's character, motive, and especially salvation as you appear to be doing with me. I leave such judgments in the hands of the only One capable of making that judgement (Matt 7:1; James 4:11,12).<<
>I agree. I'm happy to let God judge between you and me. I have noted that it is the overbearing haughty trinitarians who beat up on the few "true Christians" on earth who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus. As a disciple and worshipper of God I do feel righteously indignant at your evil teaching which causes others to lose out on having a life saving relationship with the Father. Study the the trinity, what nonsense! One should study the Bible.
Note: I told "TXzd" that I wouldn't respond to any more of his emails. So I will just end this exchange by letting the reader decide for yourself if TXzd's anger is a case of "righteous indignation" or one of sinful judging.
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